I have to say that the question took me by surprise, I had never pondered on such a thing, always assumed that the shala was a phenomena of the west, and that Indian students were in the minority and practiced in the afternoon for a smaller (Indian) fee.
I am asking you, he said as the silence pervaded the shala. Alex?
R Alexander Medin is a respected certified ashtanga teacher of many many years, he is a very devoted yogi. I used to follow his blog for a while when he was at Pure Yoga in Hong Kong, but then he left and stopped writing (now he teaches in Oslo). In response to the question he suggested that perhaps westerners have more patience (for asana I assume), as opposed to Indians. Also Indians see yoga as something too good to be true, too simple, they seem to think that more elaborate rituals are needed to reach God.
The only Indian man in the room interjected, in his eyes the west has already been through the materialistic cycle while Indians are only now beginning to buy cars.
Yet a third man suggested that Indian kids grow up with it, which I interpret as in, for example, how I did not care for Tango when I grew up with it. In the west, this man continued, yoga is relatively new and perceived as helpful.
Sharth's point of view had the disclaimer that he did not know either, he pointed out that in India people have enormous support systems with extended families. People stay living at home until 24, 25. In the west there is too much stress and confusion, hence more wondering and a desire to find a path.
I thought about my own experience for a moment, and realized that my disillusion with the catholic church dogma of "believe cause I say so" sent me searching for a more open and rational path from a very early age, as soon as I heard that the Virgin Mary conceived a child by divine intervention and I had to accept it or else, I was out of there.
What do you think?
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Thank You Thank You Thank You....Love, J
ReplyDeletewelcome welcome welcome, J
ReplyDeleteWe packed the house tonight! The woman who asked the first question (following up on the topic of kriyas) is someone you sort of know...
ReplyDeleteVery interesting topic, Claudia! All of the reasons suggested have some of the truth. Would be interesting hearing more on this from more Indians and more yogis. /Helen
ReplyDeleteOvO, is that YOU! with the question on Ut Plutthi being a kriya? goodness, how come I dont get to say hello to you? I blame it on the jet lag, have not slept for 48 hours and still having trouble, but I did meet Jaime, so progress... Maybe we can all go together on Tuesday? will email you.
ReplyDeleteHelen, yes I agree, maybe I will start interviewing Indians! :-)
Well, the decent shala fees might be a reason for Indians not to study yoga at Sharath's place. There are so many places they can go so why pick the most expensive one?
ReplyDeleteWhen a question is asked, it is most always interesting to hear the responses. Each person has a different opinion or feeling on any given subject. Asking questions, is how we learn.
ReplyDeleteroselil, used to be the indians payed a lesser fee. somewhat like in state and out of state tuition. don't know if this is still the case.
ReplyDeletep.s. that was me telling you where to get the sim card yesterday but i was too overstimulated to introduce myself :P
ReplyDeleteRoselil, and Tova, I had that understanding too, that the fee for people of Indian nationality was different but not sure if that is still the case or not.
ReplyDeleteTova, did you know you were here too... cool
Wild Magnolia, I also enjoy the variety of answers that come about when a question is given to a large group... very interesting,
Claudia
ReplyDeleteAn interesting question and once can write a book itself on this topic .
Coming to the specific topic of very few or no Indians in Mysore Ashtanga Shala it is purely due to the fact that Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga is less to known to Indians as Pattabhi Jois just had his shala in Mysore and taught there and he did not tour any other state in India to offer his teachings there / train and send his senior teachers to those place like how other Yoga Institutions are doing . The entire show of Ashtanga was dominated by Pattabhi Jois ,Sharat and Saraswathi in Mysore and apart from Mysore they taught only in places outside India .
Also neither Pattabhi Joise nor Sharath came on National TV and gave their programs that would have been watched by millions of people all over India and people would have been exposed to the Ashtanga system through that .So except for some local people in Mysore not many Indians knew about Pattabhi Joise in General and Ashtanga in particular and when people do not know about the system / teacher how will they be interested in coming to Mysore .
That apart the one more "hidden reason" which neither Sharath nor any one in the Joise family will acknowledge is that "they do not want Indians" . They fear that Indians with a few weeks of practice will open their own shalas in Mysore / other places and start offering their own style of Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga and hence to maintain "monopoly" over this wonderful practice that Pattabhi Joise had struggled and nurtured for more than 50 years I feel that they look Indians with suspicion and keep them at arms length .But this they will never reveal openly as they know that any attempt to involve Indians ( either directly / indirectly ) will lead to their loss of monopoly over this science of ashtanga yoga .
I am not saying whether they are right /wrong in doing this .They have a right to preserve their monopoly of Ashtanga Yoga as it has been nurtured and preserved by Pattabhi Joise for more than 50 years and not all Indians will value those sort of effort and sacrifice and their attitude will be how quickly to maximise their investment in Ashtanga .
But one thing is quite surprising for me i.e when the first batch of Western People came to learn from Pattabhi Joise in early 70s ,he was teaching lots of Indians there and most of them were locals .My question is what happend to all those people ? Did they just learn yoga for part time ? Why didn't any one from that group never became a senior Ashtanga teacher ? I have no answers to these .Might be Sharat/Saraswathi can answer that in the absence of Pattabhi Joise .
But I will conclude by saying one thing : To the extent to which Western People had thirst in learning Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga , Indians never had ( why they never had is a different subject altogether ) and hence they i.e Western people got what they were thirsty for and that is the reason why u find more Western people in the Mysore shala .
Krishna,
ReplyDeleteI was hoping you would comment because obviously your perspective is local and you understand the culture better than any of us. I appreciate your inisghts, and yet, another way of looking at it. I also wonder what happened to those students that were Indians and were there at the beginning...
As per the monopoly it makes me wonder because in the end that could also happen in the West... however, gaining the reputation that the shala has is difficult, so I guess it would take a long time for anything like that to happen... but I respect your point of view.
I thought that in the beginning Manju Jois was touring India... and then he was "discovered" by David William and that changed history, why did that stop? just like you I am stunned...
Claudia
ReplyDeleteThe following is from the interview of David Williams from the book Guruji :pg.21
"Were there many Indian students in the yoga shala when you started practicing ?"
David Williams : Other than Nancy and myself , all the students were Indian . At that time , about ninety to a hundred people were coming each day .They would start at 4 a.m and go until about 10 p.m , then in the afternoon from about four to nine or nine thirty .After several weeks , a fellow from England John McGeoch, came .He became the third non-Indian ,and that was it .
---
So this was the scene in Mysore Ashtanga Shala in 1973 where there were 2-3 Western People and rest Indians but now the scene in Mysore is that there are only 2-3 Indians and rest Western people .
But I still wonder what happened to all those hundreds of people who learnt under Pattabhi Joise in the early 70s ?
Yes, me too, I wonder too
ReplyDeleteDear Claudia
ReplyDeletethanks for the link. amazingly i can watch it uninterruptedly at home with my slower connection. it must be the time of the day here - less people on the net when I'm waking up for yoga. good to see a room can be warm in Oslo and what a beautiful practice.
regarding the question posed, you could generalize that the west is going through a easternization of their values while the east is going through a westernization. similar things happen in China. there is a pressure here to work, earn money, go after things, which is representative of western culture. so yoga takes a back seat. also, as my first teacher used to say, Indians see yoga as something to do when they get older.
it's possible it's not an asian versus western thing, though. in Japan, yoga is big - it goes with the focused personality of the Japanese. in China it's not so big- there is a focus on partying in the big cities, so settling down, which yoga represents, doesn't jive. to me these days in countries of emerging economies such as China and India, remind me of periods of growth in Japan and in the US, where the focus was on work-life and not on spiritual things.
cheers
Arturo
Arturo, that is amazing!, lucky you, I was not able to stream at all, and I was on wireless....
ReplyDeleteI love your theory, we are merging, ying and yanging, east going west, west going east.. maybe the next step in the drama until we finaly realize we are all one! all the energies of one force, the force!
Thanks for sharing your view
I was always led to believe that there are Indians still practicing in the afternoons. I don't know how many but I vaguely remember Sharath referring to that in my first conference here.
ReplyDeleteHmmm... yes, I believe I remember seeing some practicing in the afternoon when I came in 08 too, but I think the point was more towards the fact that there are so "few"... I tried looking at your blog, would like to follow it but I guess it is private? it asks for a password, if it is that is ok, not to worry, I was just curious, hope I get to meet you
ReplyDeleteI'm indian n I practice at the shala in the afternoons, n we are only about 4/5 of us. I think the reason for the low numbers is that, u do not value something thats so easily found.. just like your tango example.
ReplyDeleteI can assure you that majority of people in Mysore would not have heard bout Pattabhi Jois
Wineye, very nice to meet you, thank you so much for offering your perspective! I guess that makes total sense, I remember growing up in Argentina with tango and hating it... I only started to dance it when I left the country....
ReplyDeleteI will follow your blog to stay in touch
I hope we meet at some point, would really like to say hello :-)
Claudia, your has been very helpful.. I need to write more often.
ReplyDeleteYes we should meet, its pretty easy to spot me during the afternoon classes at the shala.. I'm the only one not doing the asanas perfectly :)
Wineye, ha ha, you are too modest... I am pretty sure none of us is doing the asanas perfect!! If I am by the shala in the afternoon I will look for you :-)
ReplyDelete