Fair enough, perhaps we are skewed to begin with asking: "Is Ashtanga Yoga Increasing in Popularity"? on an "ashtanga-type" of blog. Then again, I have to say that the "shorts" -if I was to speak in finance terms- did their thing. You can see them in the dark pink, those betting on the popularity of it declining. It came pretty close. Consider the chart below:
Paradox if there is one.
RELATED POLLS:
7 Reasons Why Ashtanga Yoga is Not so Hard
Is Ashtanga Yoga Increasing in Popularity?
Did you Drop Back BEFORE or AFTER Starting Intermediate Series?
103 of you guys voted and I am grateful for the participation. Thank you!
56% thinks yes, the popularity is increasing, while a whooping 31% thinks the opposite. 13% were undecided.
This is a very small sample to make huge conclusions but I have to say that it even surprised me. Many people seem to be under the false impression that ashtanga yoga is "hard" in spite of the fact that it is taught one-on-one and poses are added only when the student is ready to add more responsibility. Not only that but it is taught outside of the impersonal setting of a class, with modifications exclusively for just you or me. So where is the hard part?
I get it, when you look at the streaming and you see Zoe or Andrew in the front line among other long-term practitioners it does look so graceful and easy that it can be considered hard, but perhaps it would be in order to point out that none of these people have practiced for less than, what? at least 10-15 years, every day... maybe more. And they also started one pose at the time, when they were ready.
Paradox if there is one.
RELATED POLLS:
7 Reasons Why Ashtanga Yoga is Not so Hard
Is Ashtanga Yoga Increasing in Popularity?
Did you Drop Back BEFORE or AFTER Starting Intermediate Series?
I think you are misinterpreting the results here. Just because someone answers "no" doesn't mean they think the popularity is decreasing. It's just not growing, is what they're more likely thinking. Given the way you phrased the ? and answers, there's no way to tell.
ReplyDeleteyes, that could be the case.
ReplyDeleteClaudia
ReplyDeleteThis poll I feel is bit misleading and if u reworded this question as is "Vinyasa" yoga the most popular yoga practice then u will see a different response i.e more than 75% of people saying Yes .
After 2000 onwards "Vinyasa" style yoga has slowly overtaken other conventional hatha styles ( like Iyengar , Sivananda etc ) and Ashtanga is one of them .The other popular ones are "Power Yoga" styles by Beryl Bender Birch , Barron Baptise ,Bryan Krest and other Vinyasa styles by Sadie Nardini , Shiva Rea ,Sean Corn etc etc .My guess is for every 10 Vinaysa Practitioners only 2 will be Ashtanga Vinyasa Practitioners .
Regarding Ashtanga being Hard :
It is not that Ashtanga is Hard , Ashtanga demands a minimum 10 year time frame for a person to do all the series smoothly and not many are willing to put in that amount of work . Even among would be Yoga teachers , the attitude is that they are willing to spend 1 year on Yoga and from the next year onwards they want to start earning as a yoga teacher .
So Ashtanga Yoga is theoretically for everyone but practically speaking only the very serious ones stick .
Hi Krishna, yes it was not meant to be a scientific poll... I wonder if there is a more scientific of sorts poll that would say the numbers of practitioners that are inclined to follow all other paths, but then again, people change their minds daily so who knows?
ReplyDeleteOverall, the 56% tells me that there is still interest in Ashtanga, that is how I view it, and that perhaps, just maybe the interest is increasing... but I am not taking it as the gospel, not at all.
And you are quite right it does take dedication! :-)
Claudia
ReplyDeleteThe reason why I talked about popularity of general Vinaysa styles( instead of Ashtanga ) is today I read an interview with Shiva Rea and she herself said that she moved beyond Ashtanga to design her own flow style was due to the fact that after 2000 there is an increase in interest in people doing flow type yoga and she says as proof just go to any yoga studio and look at their brochures and there is an increase in programs involving flow yoga , vinyasa yoga , power yoga etc but she did not name Ashtanga Yoga .What she says is that people are interested in the "spirit" of the ashtanga vinyasa system but not all are prepared to take in the complete package of ashtanga and people are happy practicing various shorter forms of the same .
Ha!, interesting
ReplyDeleteNo argument with what Krishna is saying about Vinyasa and Shiva Rea--I know a number of people who have taken to her style and who've dabbled in Ashtanga but never taken to it. The fact is that Ashtanga *IS* hard--REALLY HARD. And if it's not hard, something is wrong--either with what you are practicing or how you're practicing it (though I won't rule out some exceptions here). It is designed to take you to your max, wherever and whatever that may be. And that's why it attracts all these crazy, intense, type-A people who have a reputation for going too far and hurting themselves. (I have done this. I have also hurt myself in an Iyengar class because I pushed too hard. It's not Ashtanga; it's the ashtangi....) It's just that it's not too hard for you. That is, you are taught at your own level. And, as we know, that is why jumping into a led class and trying to do the whole thing can be bad (I started with led half Primary classes, and it was overwhelming, but I think that's why I liked it...). For many people, that creates the turn-off, and can also cause injury.
ReplyDeleteAshtanga requires a committment to some extent. It also requires getting over the idea that it is or will be boring because you're doing the "same thing" every day. This might be the biggest issue. People like creativity and mixing things up (the proliferation of dancers doing yoga has created a problem out of this, because they often become teachers and many of them think of sequencing as choreography, which creates a mess of issues I won't address here). People generally don't want to have to put in months or years of work just to be "allowed" to practice Pincha Mayurasana or Handstanding (in particular) or the cool arm balances of 3rd Series. I loved working on those things as much as anyone, but once I did the Ashtanga practice for a couple of months consistently and full-time, I no longer felt that my practice was somehow wanting. When I started a (Vinyasa) teacher training, I was just getting into a more devoted approach to Asthanga, and after a couple of months, I couldn't wait to finish the TT so I could move to 100% Ashtanga and really focus on that practice. However, that's all too easy for me to say, because I never got stuck on back-bends. Most people who like working on those things I mentioned have a certain amount of shoulder strength (which I've always lacked), which makes those things easier for them (thus why they like doing them), but it makes back-bends harder, and practing arm balances/handstands only makes back-bends even more difficult. So, I guess I can understand the resistance. If you have strong shoulders and can do Pincha or free-standing handstand without a problem, why do Ashtanga, a practice that will likely force you to be stopped at Kapotasana (or earlier) for months or even years? Unless you're willing to "detach" from those arm balances and allow your shoulders to open up for back-bends first, Ashtanga is going to be a really hard sell.
Really, people in the West don't want a system or a method; they just want to do a bunch of fun things and sweat out last night's pizza and ice cream in the process. I don't mind having fun in a workshop every so often, and I'll admit to getting antsy when I recently had the same practice for 8 months, but I have seen the value in the system so many times that I'm willing to deal with it. I don't expect Ashtanga to ever become as popular as the more loosey-goosey Vinyasa styles, but I think it could definitely grow quite a bit more. I think many people had bad experiences with super-hard-ass teachers. If those people came across Ashtanga teachers who were more welcoming (not needing to change or dumb-down the practice, but just not having a drill-sergeant or otherwise nasty attitude from the first moment), I think many more of those people would stick with it. Will have to see what the future holds.
Why should we care one way or another whether ashtanga or any other type of yoga is more or less popular? If it works for you, then hooray! if it doesn't and one of the thousands of other ways to contact/nourish/expand your inner spirit do, then do that! Why should ashtanga have to be a one size fits all practice? It's no different than people believing that accepting Jesus is the only way to salvation. There are different paths and they all lead to the same place. Take the one that feels right to you.
ReplyDeleteThe reason we should care is because in any city or geographic area, until a certain number of dedicated pracitioners exist, enough to be self-sustaining, there will be a lot of stress of shalas barely being able to meet ends meet (or losing money). We also need enough people so that there are yoga-teacher types who are dedicated students of Ashtanga (in this case) and who can fill in so that the main teacher can take their regular trips to Mysore to continue their studies. Where I live, two shalas have opened in the last couple of years. One never got enough students and closed. Another opened and was doing decent with the certified teacher that was teaching there. Since that teacher left, things have not been sustainable, and two shalas have had to merge (as of Monday), but only after months of discussions (and students stressing out quite a bit due to other issues as well). So, I can say unquivocally that I would like there to be more dedicated ashtangis here. Not because I want everyone to do Ashtanga, but because I want to stop having to stress about whether my Ashtanga program is sustainable, whether there will be enough students to support bringing in a teacher from out of town, etc. it's not abuot "gaining market share", per se. Just about surviving.
ReplyDeleteFrank, that was a very interesting exposition, I am almost beginning to think you are ready for a blog! hee hee... no pressure or anything... I agree with you that OK, fair enough it is NOT easy, but mostly the difficulty resides in how we approach it or in the mind, as in the "not getting bored or anxied over wanting that pincha", (and I hear you loud and clear as I am one of those stuck in the back bends)...
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand it is also a mind game in the going deep, surrendering to the practice that includes Utitta Hasta within the standing poses... in full!! so yes, it is not easy peeacy (spelling?)
I conclude the same as you, it is in finding the right teacher, in coming to it at the right time, with the right frame of mind that we are lucky enough to see the tremendous benefits of the practice. In my own TT I also experienced some "Exploratory days" as they were called, and I also wanted to just go back to the good old Mysore that does it for me...
Interesting points you bring up
@ Loo I would say so yes, yoga is an internal practice and I am the first one to admit that whatever brings anyone closer to their own truth, that is their path, not this or that, just whatever makes us more honest, brings us to our spirit... On the other hand, I was kind of curious...
@Frank, OK just saw your second message there, guess that makes sense the more popular the practice hopefully the more qualified teachers in more cities. Take Las Vegas for example, they did not have a teacher (in the whole city!!!) or program so they started a group of ashtangis and slowly but surely are gaining attention, Kino and Tim visited them...
ReplyDeleteI believe in the benefits of the practice and I hope it spreads, but that is my own wishes and desires.
I appreciate the open communication and points of view
Very interesting post, Claudia. Very insightful comments, Frank. I have commented on your comments in my latest blog post. Just thought I'll let you know :-)
ReplyDeleteI have to say I was looking for a "like" button on Frank's posts!
ReplyDeleteAt one point last year, I got bored with Ashtanga - on hindsight I know now that it's becase I lacked guidance. Said teacher only taught me this much, and while I wasn't perfect, I just got bored. Which was why I sought out a teacher this year, and MAN, it's been difficult doing everything the correct way.
I've been an ashtangi for 2 years now and I'm not even past Navasana. I still need to work on loads of other things like chaturanga (oh, the grief that one is causing me) and backbends. I've also decided to stick to Ashtanga as THE practice for me. It takes discipline - some days I do better than others, but such mirrors the journey of life, for me at least.
I'm a single mother of 3 boys, and being able to stay in routine is a huge part of my life for now. Which means I can't just take off to Mysore whenever I like for the next 12 years, and the consistent routine that Ashtanga presents is very comforting to me at the moment.
grrr just wrote a long comment but it didn't load. Basically saying that people in the west commit to all kinds of activities, look at the london marathon last weekend. Training for that is hard and monotonous as hell. Dance, gymnastics, martial arts, pushing weights all pretty dull in the beginning.
ReplyDeleteYoga isn't necessarily the first thing many people who naturally commit to things think of, many who do have other commitments. And then of course those who are drawn to something like yoga come across Ashtanga which might not be what they were expecting or looking for. Of the sporty types who do consider Ashtanga as a fitness activity many are perhaps turned off by the spiritual aspect.
Hard to think how you would create sample groups to study something like this, complex
Made more sense I think the first time.
Nobel, I think this is the post you are referring too, good insights, I am glad you went through Frank's comment and related it to your experience too http://yogadragonden.blogspot.com/2011/04/some-frank-comments-and-rants-from.html
ReplyDeleteYoginicory being a mother with 3 boys, oh dear! I can, well actually I cannot imagine, I do not want to speak out of my elbows here, but I can relate to how it would keep you anchored to have a practice like this, something to rely on, some time for you for your body. Interesting too what you say about the teachers and how you finally found one that works with you and how you are exploring deeper and deeper all and up to navasana. I feel like saying you go girl! I admire you
Grimmly, another good point. I have been thinking about this all night, well I slept a little too but kept thinking. It is true that people commit to big things like marathons... I suppose the post is not so black and white, and I never expected it to be, of course, but I am glad this conversation sporuted out of it. Speaking of "salt" like Nobel says in his post, I guess it is to be taken wiht a pintch of it...
Well, I guess I'll need to remember that what I say may be quoted at any time. HA! I certainly did not mean to hijack the post, but the question of whether Ashtanga is increasing in popularity relates to the issues I've had recently with my fellow local ashtangis in trying to figure out what might be the best arrangement to ensure that we can keep practicing together and that we have enough people to support the teachers we have or plan to bring in. So, I like hearing why people think Asthanga is or isn't increasing in popularity so that we might use that information when talking to prospective students. Again, not to convert everyone, but just to not turn them off unnecessarily. Between my Vinyasa TT and elsewhere, I've heard too many complaints about Ashtanga not to bring up the issues I have.
ReplyDeleteFrank, first off, I really welcome your comments, never felt for one bit that you were hijacking or anything like that, I appreciate the discussion here, I actually learned quite a bit and it left me wondering and thinking for the whole of yesterday... I also agree that it is important because it does have an impact on what happens on cities that may not have as many teachers that travel to Mysore, or that are qualified etc... I hope that it keeps on springing everywhere... and on what I said about the blogging, I hope you understand it the way I meant it, as a compliment... I think you could bring up some good points on a blog... whenever you are ready of course ;-)
ReplyDeleteFan of long comments as well Frank, interested in the areas you raise as a bunch of times I've felt like walking away from Ashtanga myself, not so much because of the practice (although that too) but more because of some of what surrounds it. I introduced a friend to Ashtanga recently, she came from vinyasa yoga, a runner, really interested in and excited about the practice, perfect. She visited a shala and left after a couple of weeks because she found it too cliquey, a shame.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, it's got a higher profile now, seems to be spreading although perhaps a little more slowly. Maybe, and I hate to say this, Ashtanga teachers need more help/training/support with the business side, with running a shala successfully. Promoting, making the shala sustainable, not to get rich so much as to be more secure in facing up to the competition. Ugh,hate the thought, nearly walked out of the business element of my TT but it is important. Need to get a bunch of successful Shala owners/teachers together who have managed to make their shala sustainable without sacrificing the integrity of the practice and bring all their tips and suggestions together into a book perhaps.
Oh, thanks. I don't know about a blog, though. I'm probably too shy to become that public. :-) Plus, work should get busy again soon. In a much-needed lull right now.... For now, it will probably be the occasional commenting.
ReplyDeleteSad to hear about a cliquey shala, and I would discourage someone from making generalizations about the practice based on a short experience at a single shala. I actually found Vinyasa people much, much cliquier. Ashtangis have been much more welcoming of newcomers in my experience. That could be because the person has committed to a month of classes or something like that (depending on how the shala is run), and people know that the newcomer will be a constant face at least a couple of times a week for that month or so. I guess it just depends on which shala you go to. I suppose I could have ended up meeting less-cliquey Vinyasa people or at a very cliquey Ashtanga shala. But I think there's something to be said for the Ashtanga system being standardized and having a certain approach making practitioners less cliquey within the Asthanga community. I can walk into any shala, and I know what every student there is going through physically (to some extent) and they know about me as well. When my ashtangi friend (somewhat jokingly) says he has to recite Psalm 23 in his head in order to get through Marichyasana C, I know what he means. I may not have trouble on that particular pose, but I understand the discomfort he experiences because I have submitted myself to that as well--in final assisted back-bending, say. Even if we come to the practice for different reasons and with different backgrounds and abilities and with varied intentions, there's a certain commonality in the physical aspect of the practice that ensures that we have something to talk about (even if we usually want to talk about other things), more so than after a single Vinyasa class with a teacher who may or may not ever teach that material or even that class again. It reminds me of going through the process of pledging a fraternity in college--the commonality of the Ashtanga practice is like yogic bonding.
OK I know you guys were having a conversation but I cannot resist saying two things
ReplyDeleteGrimmly, I know it is hard for you to say that, but it is SO TRUE. You know my thing, how I see money and business as just another energy and for this whole thing to continue that part is important. I think it was last week that I was thinking how Krishnamacharya (although not always) had the Palace behind him, and now the Jois family thankfully has a Hedge Fund... they would probably do good anyway, but I hope the business side is considred more for the benefit of all... won't say anymore
Frank, love the way you write, you had me cracking up with the story about your friend that has to recite Psalm 23 before Mari D. I feel it too, I feel like I am right there with him or her, every time I do the U.D. or Laghu now, my new "psalm" pose...
And finally, what on earth is "cliquey", this business of being a foreigner gets on the way, now of to google translator!
Opps guess your friend said Mari C, not D... I stand corrected
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the most interesting comment threads I've read in a while. Thank you all for sharing your insights. And throwing in my vote for a blog Frank! ;)
ReplyDeleteYes, C. :-) I sometimes feel I need to do something like that in D myself, especially on the 2nd side. I actually busted my knee doing the 2nd side of that pose about a year ago, and until recently it has still occasionally freaked me out. Same with any poses that can be tweaky in the knees if I'm not careful: Garbha Pindasna, Bhekasana, Laghu Vajrasana, Supta Vajrasana, Vatayanasana. My new part-time class that I told you about was twice as full this morning as it was last week--almost to capacity--and there were also some little space heaters going. Relevant to the discussion of sweat on your other post, I tend to sweat a lot when the room is hot (I find the headband, which you may have seen in me wear for Sharath's classes, to be pretty crucial on most days). So this morning I was actually afraid of overheating at various points (I've had something like that happen: last summer when I was on vacation I went to a packed shala and sweat so much I actually started shivering on my mat). I slipped out of the first side of Vatayanasana, which totally freaked me out--I couldn't even do that side at first due to my knee injury last year, and have always been afraid I could tweak the bad knee there. Must remember to use towel to prevent slipping when I am that sweaty! It's all good, though. I managed to make it through practice, including the new pose my teacher had told me to add. Plus, the heat makes it that much easier to go deeper in final backbending. :-)
ReplyDeleteThanks Savasanaaddict:-)
ReplyDeleteFrank, I actually have the exact same thing on the second side of D where my knee "sounds"... I do not have meniscuses (operations due to rough childhood playing -I never stooped bouncing off walls as a child-. I did see the band, I have never sweated so much as to need one, alhough maybe in Mysore I remember thinking it could come handy, I love it when it is very warm, nothing like warm practices!